Curse

BogusDude · Nov 28, 2011, 10:17 AM // 10:17

While that may be true, i think the complaints are based around it is ruining their non-WoC gameplay. It wouldn't be such a big deal if it was just for a short period, but if its gonna end up taking them a year just push the content out then its a little too much frustration for many to care to put up with. Maybe the requirement to start the quest chain should have been greater than just completing the campaign.

darktyco · Dec 06, 2011, 07:42 PM // 19:42

I just vanqed Zen Daijun in WoC mode the other day. It was easily the hardest area I've faced yet (this includes vqing all of Elona and most of Tyria). My hero builds could probably have used some tweaking but wow did I ever wipe a lot - luckily I had plenty of DP removal items on me. Actually I felt like 85% of the area wasn't too hard, but there were certain mobs with just the right combinations that would tear me to shreds (I think it was the dual shamans or shaman + dual tricksters).

Malganis · Dec 13, 2011, 05:52 PM // 17:52

I got hit by the WoC Scavengers yesterday trying to vanquish Minister Cho's Estate for the Z-Vanquish. We had a monk, a ranger, and a ritualist, along with a hero minion master necro. We used up 2 sets of cons, several dp-removers, several summoning stones, and we still failed before getting halfway done.

I went back later by myself with my ranger, two minion master heroes, and an SoS/Resto hero, and breezed right thru it, no cons, and no deaths, with the original spawns.

These scavengers SUCK! I can beat WiK mobs (then again, using 6 or 8 in the party), but this is impossible for a normal player like me.

enter_the_zone · Dec 19, 2011, 11:49 PM // 23:49

The lesson here is : get 50/50 in HOM / GWAMM/ Whatever you're aiming for, before playing WoC... or just skip it entirely.

An option to turn off WoC content wouldn't hurt, but this is Anet we're talking about here.... there are things they do well, and things they do not so well

Game features that players really want (like reversion for hacked accounts, decent security measures etc.) are just one of the things that Anet suck at. Instead, they'd rather offer costumes, Commando April Fools gags and flux effects. It's about priorities, and theirs are to add things that make people go "Oooohhh, shiny, shiny". Which says alot about how they view the majority of their player base.... then again, the "WTB mini polar bear" in party search does pretty much bear that view out.

tummlykins · Dec 22, 2011, 03:46 AM // 03:46

They've already stated they fully intend to allow some way to turn off the changes made to the game by Winds of Change (WoC) progress. It's probably not going to come until part three is released (also the final part).

I think the lesson ArenaNet can take from this thread is that when Guild Wars: Beyond goes to Elona there should be a way to toggle between the new spawns and the old spawns with the release of part one (similar to what you can do with War in Kryta once you've completed it) rather than making them wait for the final part to be released. When it takes months to release all the content and the ability to turn of the new and improved mobs only comes with the last piece of content, it's very disruptive for players who want to access the same old areas without the added difficulty of the new changes.

Either way, those who are concerned about the increased difficulty of completing old Canthan content - such as quests, vanquishes or dailies - can rest assured that ArenaNet has already said they will allow players to "turn off" the WoC content in a future update.

ValaOfTheFens · Dec 22, 2011, 02:25 PM // 14:25

I'm happy this thread exists. I just returned to GW and would have dove right into WoC had I not seen this. Now I am systematically vanquishing Cantha and have 17 out of 37 done. Thanks to the Kurzicks for holding most of the cities south of Kaineng. ^_^ I wish you could turn off WiK stuff though. I couldn't complete a quest because the NPC is level 2 and WiK guys keep killing her.

Amy Awien · Dec 22, 2011, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Old trick: do it in hardmode, your guest will be level 20 and the WiK mobs will not be harder then they are in Normal Mode

Daesu · Dec 23, 2011, 07:49 PM // 19:49

I agree with this thread that the WoC stuff are "broken". This is what I have found out for my own characters.

1. Don't start on the WoC quests if you are a Cathan. That way, you can still exploit the Zen Dajun VQ quests when they come.

2. Don't start on the WoC quests on characters that you have setup for Budek VQ quests. Because you wont be able to exploit the killing drink master to gain VQ.

3. Don't start on the WoC quests before gaining the Cathan VQ title for obvious reasons.

I would not have started on the WoC quests for all my characters in my account except for 1 non-Cathan who has completed Cathan VQ. This is what I should have done.

After starting on the WoC quests, you may not want to go back to Catha after that.

Fitz Rinley · Dec 23, 2011, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Please, for gawd's sake! No more QQ's about WOC. If it's too hard for you then ask for advice and not bigger rewards. People here WILL try and help.

This is exactly the kind of non-constructive response that makes bothering to post not worth it. This response is pejorative toward the OP. It does not deal with the issue presented as it has no academic argument to present. Reporting this kind of post to the moderators will mean nothing because no one will understand the difference after anything is done - assuming something would be done, and done by someone who is sufficiently trained in forensics and debate to do it.

The fact remains that Winds of Change does not allow for one to turn the content off after it is started. This means that once you have a character, likely your main, begin Winds of Change you will not be able to assist lower level members of your guild, friends, etc. The entire reason for the 20th level cap was so that your friends could start playing and Quickly join you with maximized level and armor in a matter of days, if not in a day. The inability to turn Winds of Change off so that you don't have to deal with them when: 1) you are sick and just want to have fun, 2) you are escorting lower level players (friends, family, guild-mates, or new guys/gals), or 3) you are interested in doing something specific in a limited amount of time and don't want to waste the time it takes to deal with unnecessary epic level mobs.

The OP is correct in wanting some way to tune the extra content out when it is neither needed nor desired. The OP is also correct in stating the rewards are insufficient - it is not as if you can acquire more specialty items by running through these mobs again. Which brings us to the main point, which has nothing to do with asking for bigger rewards, but being able to play this content when you choose to do so and not playing it (turning it off) when you do not. Once you have completed Winds of Change, then they are merely an annoyance in between the player and other objectives.

bhavv · Dec 29, 2011, 11:55 PM // 23:55

The thing I'll never understand is why Anet chose to ruin BFLA by making it easy peasy while making the Cantha end game tough as hell, and unavoidable while vanqing.

It also doesnt do anything to add to my hom, one reason why I grinded WiK on 8 alts was because of the oppressor weapons, along with how much I enjoyed the quest chain.

I rather have a repeatable initial difficulty WiK with no more medals being handed out for multiple completions, but that will never happen.

WoC is very hard (good), but also permanently game changing with no HoM rewards (bad).

BrettM · Dec 30, 2011, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

WoC is very hard (good), but also permanently game changing with no HoM rewards (bad).

WiK did not have any HoM rewards until the end of the content was reached, which took many months. WoC is not over yet, and we have no idea how the rewards will work out in the end.

A more legitimate complaint is that the content does not revert if the party contains a player that has not begun it, unlike all other content introduced in the past couple of years. WiK foes are not present if a party member has not met the requirements to begin WiK. Vanguard mission foes in Pre-Searing are determined by the lowest level member of the party, and are not present at all if a party member is under level 10. This is the behavior that we've come to expect, and it is hard to understand why WoC works in the exact opposite manner.

Swingline · Dec 30, 2011, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

WiK did not have any HoM rewards until the end of the content was reached, which took many months. WoC is not over yet, and we have no idea how the rewards will work out in the end.

A more legitimate complaint is that the content does not revert if the party contains a player that has not begun it, unlike all other content introduced in the past couple of years. WiK foes are not present if a party member has not met the requirements to begin WiK. Vanguard mission foes in Pre-Searing are determined by the lowest level member of the party, and are not present at all if a party member is under level 10. This is the behavior that we've come to expect, and it is hard to understand why WoC works in the exact opposite manner.

Its a 50/50 shot the way I see it for imperial weapons being added to HoM. We have so many that its not needed but on the other hand it wouldn't be consistent since end game weapons akin to them can be added. I would like to see deldrimor weapons added to.

The scavnegers could be branching a storyline. The scavengers might change the future of Cantha more than we know atm. They're obviously peasants who have banded together to fight off anyone who impedes their way of life such as bandits(Crimson Skull) and outsiders. This is why they are hostile to us. I kind of see it like WoWs scarlet crusade. They have become paranoid of everyone and this will help drive Cantha to become isolated in GW2.

As for the difficulty they really shouldn't have put end game mobs in 4 and 6 man starter zones. HM is only available once a player beats the game so HM itself is considered endgame. By this logic all HM maps that would limit parties to four or six players in NM should become eight man content and allow parties of eight. The starter zones use small parties as a game device to ease new players into bigger groups.

bhavv · Dec 30, 2011, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

WiK did not have any HoM rewards until the end of the content was reached, which took many months.

Oh I didnt know that since I didnt play it until very late, but I ended up farming every single Oppressor weapon and wouldnt get anything out of doing WoC.

aspi · Dec 30, 2011, 10:14 AM // 10:14

I kinda don't get the fact that after you have done the first two parts of woc you did get rid of the afflicted, but in return you get larger mobs with way better skillbars.
Now WiK was almost similar but I never did see such larger mobs than I did when VQ-ing pongmei yesterday,

Gli · Dec 30, 2011, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

They're obviously peasants who have banded together to fight off anyone who impedes their way of life such as bandits(Crimson Skull) and outsiders. This is why they are hostile to us. I kind of see it like WoWs scarlet crusade. They have become paranoid of everyone and this will help drive Cantha to become isolated in GW2.

How is that obvious? Certainly not by the name they gave them. I've been assuming they are dispossessed peasants, moving in after the fighting (us vs. the Afflicted) was done, to loot the battlefields. That's what scavengers do, they rush in to pick the leftovers clean, maybe fighting among themselves for the choicest bits. Scavengers need others around, or there won't be anything to scavenge.

Naming the most powerful group of humans ever to be encountered in the lands of Cantha (Well, before the Purity guys showed up anyway.) after nature's garbage collectors makes no sense at all.

What you're describing is how they're presenting the Ministry of Purity followers.

Swingline · Dec 30, 2011, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

How is that obvious? Certainly not by the name they gave them. I've been assuming they are dispossessed peasants, moving in after the fighting (us vs. the Afflicted) was done, to loot the battlefields. That's what scavengers do, they rush in to pick the leftovers clean, maybe fighting among themselves for the choicest bits. Scavengers need others around, or there won't be anything to scavenge.

Naming the most powerful group of humans ever to be encountered in the lands of Cantha (Well, before the Purity guys showed up anyway.) after nature's garbage collectors makes no sense at all.

What you're describing is how they're presenting the Ministry of Purity followers.

Everyone knows the MoP plays a big part in closing Cantha off. The scavengers are the peasants who succumbed to the MoPs influence of ridding Cantha of all its so called "problems". So what better way to do this as a poor peasant than to scavenge the battlefield for equipment.

The difficulty has nothing to do with the story. Anet just made them hard because people were bitching about the game being too easy.

superraptors · Dec 30, 2011, 03:19 PM // 15:19

i have found wik and woc terribly repetitive and that is a real let down, i have done like 1 quest of woc and gave up because the mobs are still easy and pretty pointless and the rewards for hours of questing is just completely disgraceful.

Gli · Dec 30, 2011, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

The difficulty has nothing to do with the story.

It should, or your game looks stupid. What's next? Rampaging pensioners? Man-eating ponies?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Anet just made them hard because people were bitching about the game being too easy.

And of course starter areas were the most suitable place to fix that.

Daesu · Dec 30, 2011, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

The difficulty has nothing to do with the story. Anet just made them hard because people were bitching about the game being too easy.

I thought of starting a thread on just this point alone but decided not to because it is just going to be a flame magnet.

I feel that I have taken on more challenges from this game than most people who are still playing this game. People only choose to undertake challenges based on the reward that they would get at the end. If the area is too difficult and the rewards are not good enough, they tend to avoid it.

In many of the toughest end-game HM areas, people would either a) avoid them because the rewards are not good enough, OR b) defer to joining speed clear groups that rely on 24 or more PvE skills/team and consets to clear the area, instead of doing it themselves with 7 heroes.

This is why they bragged that the game is too easy, since they chose to take the easy way out in the first place. I only wish ANet would understand this before they design the next PvE challenge.

There should be quests/missions where no cons (aka "taking drugs") are allowed and a limit to the number of PvE skills you can bring per team. That would be my preferred way to address their complaints without increasing monster level, armor, or hp.

Swingline · Dec 31, 2011, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

It should, or your game looks stupid. What's next? Rampaging pensioners? Man-eating ponies?

There are many inconsistencies within video games, even in the mighty WoW. It never made sense that the afflicted were so weak while Shiro was around during the main storyline but after he was defeated the afflicted became super powered during WoC. You would think they would be weaker with their source gone. Anet made them hard because it was easier to do with their small staff instead of adding brand new maps with harder mobs or adjusting elite areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

And of course starter areas were the most suitable place to fix that.

Doing this also limits options and creativity. A person can spend 4 hours doing a 4 man shing jea VQ with melee or they can just load spirits and steamroll it in an hour or less. It gives power to imbalanced options and causes the entire game to become further powercreeped.